Maya-2: The fight against lust

A key factor generating Maya or illusions is lust. Lust, for money, power, prestige and so on are a key factor in degradation of once powerful societies, and their eventual conquest and extermination by barbarians with little social values standing at the gate. They too are guided by lust, a lust for the riches and booty that a rich society can give.

But there is a difference. The barbarians have some sort of unity between them. They are united by their lust for the opponent's wealth. On the other hand, the opponent, the rich and powerful society has fights in between itself. So, it's house is divided.

Sounds familiar?

Sounds like current affairs?

It should. The same situation has played over and over, generations after generations, centuries after centuries, millenia after millenia. It seems that mankind can never permanently evolve beyond a particular stage. The end of times (good/bad) also seems to be a rule along with the ultimate truth in the world.

Avoiding lust is simple. We must be able to draw a line, between what we can achieve, how much to achieve so as to be able to live a comfortable life without damaging the self, or the fabric of the society. For if the lust to get wealth or power grows beyond a certain extent, it will start affecting the society. It starts coming in the line of duty, and when duty is neglected for one's greed, the system starts to fail.

Breach of duty doesn't happen all of a sudden. And so doesn't lust. It happens unknowingly. It starts with a trickle. Say, one day a policeman happens to spend his day's earnings from the police station on booze. He needs to give the same amount of money to his wife who was expecting to buy something that day. He's in a fix now. For once, he accepts a bribe from a person who breaks a rule and sets him free. The cop gets the money, gives it to his wife . Case closed.

That is if he feels guilty for what he has done. The chains of duty are sometimes very feeble on people. It involves sacrifice, selfless labor, doing that extra hour to ensure that something has been done correctly. In comparison, breaking the call of duty is so attractive and soothing for the mind. Once greed/lust has been tasted, it keeps growing until it devours the man as a whole. If this is replicated on a larger scale, the whole society is at stake.

A second place, apart from the specimen of corruption described above, where lust is particularly discerning is Indian politics. It is known by all that for far too long, politicians have indulged in the lust for the power. Coalition politics is a natural outcome of this lust. Parties with like ideologies but differing in matters of governance unite after the elections to form the government. In this, they let governing the nation on the backburner. Policy making becomes insanely difficult since the policy has to cater to all the members of the coalition. Time taken to form the policy also increases dramatically as a result. Moreover, ideologies of political parties that are not the interest of the majority populace of the nation are enforced into decision making only because that party has got some seats in the Lok Sabha. Another place where one finds lust in the 'largest democracy' is when we find regional parties mushrooming in states instead of having few large national political parties that rule the nation.

These regional parties are (IMO only) born when a national party doesn't give local candidates a preference over their loyalists. Again, lust for power and nepotism from the national party come into question over here. Now what happens is that the regional party might not have very vast resources compared to a national party with nation wide reach and a larger number of fund-raisers. So how do they set out getting votes? They then resort to caste based politics by propping up somebody from a majority caste of the region. Caste issues then triumph over public issues. Throw in religion based politics, quota demands, and voila! we get a lip smacking recipe for disaster.

These are the enemies within the Indian state that our nationalist minded folk have to root out. We might explore the solutions for the above impasse in another post.

As far as barbarians at the gate are concerned, India is safe only as they have their own troubles to tend to. The moment they convince each other to unite for the booty, for our resources, we'll be done.

Consider as well the following dialogue between Shri Krishna and Arjuna about solving the problems of lust. The focus is on controlling the senses, knowing that mind and intelligence are above the senses. I wish that no call of duty is averted just for the short term comfort of the senses. It would only bring long term disaster.

1)

Chapter 3:
३६
अर्जुन उवाचा
अथ केना प्रयुक्तो ’यम्
पापं करती पुरुषः
अनिच्चान्न अपि वर्स्नेया।
"Arjuna said: O descendant of Vrishni, by what is one impelled to sinful acts, even unwillingly, as if engaged by force?"

३७
श्री-भगवान उवाचा
कम ऐसा क्रोध ऐसा
रजो-गुना-समुद्भावः
महासनो महा-पाप्मा
विद्ध्य इनाम इह वैरिनाम।
"The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: It is lust only, Arjuna, which is born of contact with the material mode of passion and later transformed into wrath, and which is the all-devouring sinful enemy of this world।"

३८
धुमेनावृयते वह्निर
यथादार्सो मलेना का
यथोल्बेनाव्रतो गर्भास
तथा तेनेदम अव्र्तम ।
"As fire is covered by smoke, as a mirror is covered by dust, or as the embryo is covered by the womb, the living entity is similarly covered by different degrees of this lust।"

३९
अव्र्तम जनानाम एतेना
ज्नानिनो नित्य-वैरिना
कम-रूपेण कौन्तेय
दुस्पुरेनानालेना का।
"Thus the wise living entity’s pure consciousness becomes covered by his eternal enemy in the form of lust, which is never satisfied and which burns like fire।"

४०
इन्द्रियानी मनो बुद्धिर
अस्याधिस्थानाम उच्यते
एतैर विमोहयाटी ऐसा
जनानाम अव्र्त्य देहिनाम।
"The senses, the mind and the intelligence are the sitting places of this lust. Through them lust covers the real knowledge of the living entity and bewilders him."

४१
तस्मात् त्वं इन्द्रियान्य आदौ
नियम्य भारतार्सभा
पाप्मानं प्रजाही ही इनाम
जनाना-विज्नना-नासनम।
"Therefore, O Arjuna, best of the Bharatas, in the very beginning curb this great symbol of sin [lust] by regulating the senses, and slay this destroyer of knowledge and self-realization।"

४२
इन्द्रियानी परानी अहुर
इन्द्रियेभ्याह परम मनः
मनसस तू पारा बुद्धिर
यो बुद्धेह परतास तू सह।
"The working senses are superior to dull matter; mind is higher than the senses; intelligence is still higher than the mind; and he [the soul] is even higher than the intelligence।"

४३
एवं बुद्धेह परम बुद्ध्वा
सम्स्ताभ्यात्मनाम आत्मना
जाही सत्रुम महा-बहो
कम-रूपम दुरासदम।
"Thus knowing oneself to be transcendental to the material senses, mind and intelligence, O mighty-armed Arjuna, one should steady the mind by deliberate spiritual intelligence [Krishna consciousness] and thus—by spiritual strength—conquer this insatiable enemy known as lust."

Maya (It's Maya all around-2)

In the last post, I talked about how Maya can cloud the human mind. And one of the few ways to come out of Maya can be to create awareness among the people. And leaving the ambiguity of my previous posts, today I am going to talk only in the context of India.

On one matter the people of India seem to be relatively well united as compared to other matters. That the current condition of India is because of the continuing sack of the nation by the political elite. More than any other human population in the world, it is the political elite of India that has the ostrich syndrome, the temerity to hide the head in the sand, which it has been found recently, is not even done by ostriches. At best, it is a tactic by the bird to hide from the predators, but yet its head remains outside the sand and it will take flight upon seeing predators, often causing injuries by its powerful kicks which might even cause death.

Sorry for going OT for some time, but had to show that even the bird is better than our political elite and causes damage when provoked. In the context of India, it is needed that:

1) People are told that merely voting the government into power is not going to work. You have to be after the politicians till the time they do not retire from politics (which anyway happens only when they die). For this, they should be made aware of the 'Rights To Information' act of the government. As far as my understanding of this is concerned, the act is there to provide the people an answer of the government's policies regarding various matters, and our preference shoud be most importantly on matters like national security, education, employment and other public welfare.

2) People are made aware of their fundamental duties and rights. They should also be made aware of the structure of the government and its functioning. Rather than understanding that they just have to vote, they should be given a crash course in Civics to understand the structure of the government. After all, doesn't any worker, no matter what the skill level, know how to operate a machine? I bet that there are people out there who do not know how the government functions. Perhaps even I do not know it very well. If democracy is a government run by the people, for the people and of the people, they should also know how to operate it.

3) People should be made aware that voting, even by sheer impulses if not through intuition, is better than not voting at all. Politicians must be made aware that the only way that they are going to get elected and have power is to serve the people. I wonder, that inspite of the difficulties that India faces, why is there still not a 100% voting turnout? Or even in the mid nineties? Even in today's frustrated times, voting turnout is 60% or 70% and so on. Another worrying idea seems that some people who came up with ideas such as "Don't vote 09 campaign". Such defeatist initiatives should be ignored at the least, and stopped at the best by co-operation among the people.

4) Leaving the dogma of the Hindu/Jain/Buddhist/Zoroastrian/Jewish/Muslim/Christian caste system behind, whoever is in power needs to be told shamelessly that he/she/it has to serve the people like a kshatriya (a warrior). There is nothing to be shameful in it. It is simply impossible to lead the nation by being something else than a kshatriya. Leading the nation involves following the righteous path, doing what is necessary and not doing bits of everybody's will. A person must be ready to call someone's bluff and I do not see that happening in any other way then being bold, courageous and war-like, characteristics which are supposed to be found in a kshatriya.

Moreover, on occasions like today, people should force their supposed-to-be 'kshatriya' leaders to start aggressive posturing and actions, and make Pakistan face the retributions rather than to fold up on themselves. And now, there's also evidence implicating that nation in the Mumbai strikes. After all, as the great seer of the Bhagwada Gita says:

Chapter 2:
३२
यद्र्च्चाया कोपपन्नाम
स्वर्ग-द्वारं अपव्र्तम
सुखिनः क्षत्रियाः पर्थ
लभन्ते युद्धं इद्र्सम।
"O Partha, happy are the kshatriyas to whom such fighting opportunities come unsought, opening for them the doors of the heavenly planets."

३३
अथ सत त्वं इमं धर्म्यम
संग्रामं न करिश्यसी
ततः स्व-धर्मं किर्तिम का
हित्वा पापं अवप्स्यासी।
"If, however, you do not perform your religious duty of fighting, then you will certainly incur sins for neglecting your duties and thus lose your reputation as a fighter."

३४
अकिर्तिम कापी भूतनी
कथायिस्यन्ति ते ’व्यायाम
सम्भावितस्य काकिर्तिर
मरनद अतिरिच्यते।
"People will always speak of your infamy, and for a respectable person, dishonor is worse than death."

Dishonor seems to be the preference of India's leaders. And dishonor seems to be the preference of our people, over death, which is going to happen anyway when they elect such people to power or do not respond when such leaders are hoisted on to us from the powers beyond our reach. So, we end up getting both dishonor and death, while those responsible for the terror and carnage at the Taj that visited us get their supposed rewards in heaven for their 'martyrdom'.

"Splendid" is the only thing I can say of the current government's response to this provocation. The least we can do right now is to boot out the Congress and their allies in the next election so ruthlessly as to make an example before the other parties for them to understand what would happen of them when they do not follow the people's wishes.

Its maya all around.

Maya. Illusion. The very word we want to avoid, yet get trapped in. Maya arises from ignorance of the real world, and us believing what we are told to. The dictionary meaning of the word maya comes out as:

maya
n. Hinduism
1) The power of a god or demon to transform a concept into an element of the sensible world.
2) The transitory, manifold appearance of the sensible world, which obscures the undifferentiated spiritual reality from which it originates; the illusory appearance of the sensible world.

Sometimes I feel, that the whole world lives on Maya. Following are two kinds of maya I wanted to stress on relating to current events in the world:

(A). Maya is the opium, that lulls us into thinking that all is well, that we can handle this life very easily. Time passes, nothing happens for a while, and then.. Bang! one catastrophe comes by and we wake up from our sleep. We realize that our ways were wrong and we need to amend them. Finger-pointing takes place, heads roll, correction protocols are established, the problem is rectified, and things start working.

But will this be the last time a catastrophe happens? No.. for with times of peace, people's intellect is again lulled into thinking that all is well. Maya strikes his/her velvety arrow into people's heads, soothes them, relaxes them, tells them that that evil man/woman/disease/problem is gone and all is now well. But for how long? Nobody thinks about that.

(B). The bottom line is, that the 'maya' is caused by a false sense of safety and comfort that most (all?) people get into. But apart from the above, there is another kind of 'maya', the maya that arises from despair, the maya that takes the form of intense paranoia of the stranger. This maya arises when everything is going wrong, and we still don't know what is happening. It arises because mankind has an extraordinary urge to simplify things for himself. When we write numbers in decimals, we strike off the third one. At best we would be striking off the fourth or the fifth one. It ain't going any further for us. When we are adding one to a very great number, we might neglect one sometimes. Assumptions are also made in science to make things simpler, and better for the quirky human mind. And now when things start getting complex, he is in a twist, possible theories keep mounting. He can't get the solution, for he can't understand the problem without simplifying it. In this frenzy, knee-jerk reactions are bound to occur, as man starts knocking off things on a random basis. Enemies morph into friends, and friends into enemies.

For example, under normal circumstance, when there is a lack of evidence of a crime, we let go of the person, perhaps warn him of the consequences of trying it out again and so on. But there is a group of people, who are so mentally sick and tired of their own failure in their lives (or who indulge in this because they are paid for it.) that they would slur the system for it. The more such rabble is piled on the system, the more ineffective it becomes. Not directly, as professionalism of the professional remains intact no matter what is being said about him.. but in terms of trust. The above said people follow the apothegm of - "A lie repeated a thousand times becomes the truth." And as trust of the system corrodes, people grow more mistrustful of the institution, although there are only a few bad apples. Heck, even if there are more bad apples, loss of trust would mean that even if there is one good person, people will avoid the system and not engage it even if it is needed.

And then, when real catastrophe occurs, we have utter chaos. Now the people don't know whom to trust, where to hide their crown jewels. Whom to speak for, whom to speak against? They are lost.. until there come a time when they start reforming the system on their own, trying to take on the enemy, both within and outside, by themselves instead of cribbing about both at the same time.

Can you recognise the two places in (A) and (B)? (A) is the rest of the world, that maya is the 'normal' maya, that which may arise from success. (B) are places like India, this maya is of despair, where the government is of the mob, looting people of opportunities along with money, and in return, giving nothing. The 'real catastrophe' that I am talking about in the last para of (B) is the recent attack on Mumbai.

Besides, here are some of my observations of what miscellaneous illusions the people of the world are in today:

1) The government of the country really really cares for them and will go out of its way to support the people, without there being any pressure on them out of pure nationalistic spirit.

2) That by not going out to vote for a candidate, they are showing their resentment against the system.

3) That by going out to vote, they have finished their responsibility and can go around their daily lives with heads held high and strutting their stuff.

4) That by being good, ill - fate will not befall them.

5) That appeasing violent rageboys, they will solve the problem.

6) That the righteous always deserve to win, with no thought of what kind of tactics are needed.
etc.. etc..

A few choicest quotes from the BG on maya and its effects.

Chapter 14:
५

सत्त्वं राजस तम इती
गुनाह प्रकृति-संभवः
निबध्नन्ति महा-बहो
देहे देहिनम् अव्ययम

"Material nature consists of three modes—goodness, passion and ignorance. When the eternal living entity comes in contact with nature, O mighty-armed Arjuna, he becomes conditioned by these modes."

८

तामस त्व अज्नना-जम विद्धि
मोहनं सर्व-देहिनम्
प्रमादालस्य-निद्रभिस
तन निबध्नती भरता

"O son of Bharata, know that the mode of darkness, born of ignorance, is the delusion of all embodied living entities. The results of this mode are madness, indolence and sleep, which bind the conditioned soul."

This is how maya was defined by the great Seer of the Bhagwada Gita.

So, how do we solve maya? By definition, it comes by ignorance. And the cure thus lies in removing ignorance. Spread of knowledge, a clear demarcation of how much we can tolerate, and rising up ourselves to correct things on our own if our legal appointees are not upto the task are but a few steps. Consider the 11th from the same chapter.

११

सर्व-द्वारेसू देहे ’समं
प्रकासा उपजायते
जनानाम यदा तदा विद्याद
विव्र्द्धाम सत्त्वं इत्य उत।

"The manifestations of the mode of goodness can be experienced when all the gates of the body are illuminated by knowledge."

And we should not wait for any auspicious occasion to start our plans. The time is right here, right now. As has been repeated in the Gita, that all has been decided by the Almighty already, we just need to get up and be his tool.

And ISRO continues to leap ahead.

This blogger, being of a slightly pessimistic variety had held back from the fireworks that gripped the nation as India achieved this feat. But with news of its success coming by, I just could not hold back. Perhaps this is OT, but still trying to blend it in with some Gita quotes.

Chapter 17:
११

अफलाकंक्सिभिर यज्नो
विधि-दिसतो या इज्यते
यस्ताव्यम एवेति मनः
समाधाय सा सात्त्विकः।

"Of sacrifices, the sacrifice performed according to the directions of scripture, as a matter of duty, by those who desire no reward, is of the nature of goodness."

I shall now explain to you how ISRO would serve humanity in India and the world, through the Chandrayaan-1 without having any regard for themselves (i.e. the scientists.)

Introduction: The Chandrayaan-1 (translated as Moon Vehicle), is India's first mission to the moon. The unmanned lunar mission includes a lunar orbiter and an impactor. It was launched from the Satish Dhawan Space Centre in Sriharikota, Andhra Pradesh on the 22nd October 2008 and inserted into lunar orbit on the 8th November 2008.

It has high resolution remote sensing equipment for infra-red, visible and soft and hard X-ray ranges. It carries five ISRO payloads and six from foreign space agencies, like the NASA (National Aeronautics and Space Association), the ESA (European Space Agency) and the Bulgarian Aerospace Agency.

Objectives:
1) Mapping lunar surface for chemical elements and 3 dimensional topography.
2) The impact of a sub-satellite (Moon Impact Probe) on the surface of the moon to get data for future soft landings on the moon.

Other Technical details can be found here:

In return, our scientists get one-eighth of the salary at NASA. Reports say that this is one of the major reasons why India has been able to get cost competitiveness in the space sector. Plus, people should be more grateful to these scientists, as they have not ditched their jobs and gone for other high paying sectors.

The fruits of their labour will entail discovery of several minerals such as iron, magnesium, aluminium, thorium, uranium and even the discovery of helium-3, which is said to be a clean nuclear fuel able to be used in fusion reactors. And there is said to be an abundance of helium-3 on moon, to such an extent that can power the earth for 200 years.

Even for such an important contribution to the society, the ISRO scientists are offered a paltry Rs. 31,000 at entry level posts, Rs. 60,000 at mid-level posts and Rs. 70,000 at high level posts of director and above. (ref.) Which means that while a businessman who has studied much less, and toiled a lot less than a scientist and carries little weight of the country's pride on his shoulders can have a shot at being a millionaire/billionaire, while our scientists are doomed to a middle-class life no matter how much hard they work and no matter how much of the country's esteem is based on their shoulders. All this just because of their love of science and technology.

In comparison, the NASA scientists have an average salary of $88,000 (link). Yet we have PIOs and Indian space scientists working in foreign space agencies flocking to India to work here (link). Now it would be against the intentions of the blog to discourage young Indians from working in ISRO and ditching India, but for the average Indian, I think making such a comparison helps in garnering more support for ISRO, and be more appreciative and grateful of the work (rather service) these scientists do for India.

Hats off to ISRO, you guys there sacrifice your life for a thankless world, and satisfy the definition of a good sacrifice as mentioned in the Gita. But I hope there is a significant section of the society, me included that is grateful to you. Keep up the good work, you have a long way to go (link)..

Some pics:

Pic 1:

Pic 2:

Pic 3:



Other Images: [1,2,3,4,5,6]

Idol Worship? Nothing better to fight against??

I don't know why time after time, centuries after centuries and even right now, people have problem with idol worship. Many of us are appalled by the death and destruction that the word God has caused and might even consider ourselves agnostics/atheists, but there are many still (including yours truly) that hold Him in higher esteem than any other human. For our sake, we say this:

Chapter 12:
२

श्री-भगवान उवाचा
मयी अवेस्य मनो ये मम
नित्य-युक्ता उपासते
श्रद्धया परयोपेतास
ते में युक्ततमा मतः।

"The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: Those who fix their minds on My personal form and are always engaged in worshiping Me with great and transcendental faith are considered by Me to be most perfect."

३-४

ये टीवी अक्षरम अनिर्देस्यम
अव्यक्तं पर्युपासते
सर्वत्र-गम असिन्त्यम का
कुता-स्थं अकालम ध्रुवं।

संनियाम्येंद्रिया-ग्रामं
सर्वत्र समां-बुद्धयः
ते प्राप्नुवन्ति मम एव
सर्व-भूत-हिते रतः।

"But those who fully worship the unmanifested, that which lies beyond the perception of the senses, the all-pervading, inconceivable, unchanging, fixed and immovable—the impersonal conception of the Absolute Truth—by controlling the various senses and being equally disposed to everyone, such persons, engaged in the welfare of all, at last achieve Me."

If not at a human form of God, what is the common layman assumed to imagine, when he worships of God? An idol is precisely that, a medium that a common man can use to imagine God. I have never undergone this experience, but those who do, may drop a few lines. I would like to explore the philosophy of the 'others' who hate idolaters.

But at the same time, the beauty of Ancient Hindu philosophy is that it allows another side of the spectrum that supports worship of the unmanifested as well. OTOH, consider what St. Francis Xavier, in whose school I might have ended up studying if I were richer has to say about us idolaters:

"When I have finished baptising the people, I order them to destroy the huts in which they keep their idols; and I have them break the statues of their idols into tiny pieces, since they are now Christians. I could never come to an end describing to you the great consolation which fills my soul when I see idols being destroyed by the hands of those who had been idolaters."(from The Letters and Instructions of Francis Xavier, 1993, pp 117).

(reference link)

People have continued denigrating humanity in the 21st century by getting itchy over all art forms and having problems with any form of humans in art.

It would be interesting to understand the working of the human mind, when two sections of the society can have such different schools of thought. What can be the reason for exclusivist thinking of more than half of humanity? Why has human philosophy reached such a nadir after levitating to such heights under Indian philosophy?

We need to get our act together and get over our petty feuds and be ready for greater challenges in this world, such as greenhouse effect, avoiding a nuclear fallout, combating diseases and so on. The lessons of Gita are for all humans, irrespective of size, color, nationality, etc.

Proselytisation-2

Well, it's veterans day over here today, and got time to crack some knuckles and begin typing a post, which might take me a few days to complete.

In reply to my last post, one of the blogs co-contributors wrote on October 21, 5:48 a.m.

"So whats the underlying problem?
Where does this proselytisation ultimately lead us to?
Why should we be wary of it?
Is there any loss to the country, or to the humanity or the world as a whole because of proselytism?"

You have not dwelt on these questions. Please consider them as well."

Time to type something out on them.

Q 1. So what's the underlying problem?
Ans. 1. I assume that he is talking about proselytism over here. The idea thrives on two things. Local insecurity of the people targeted, and the ideology of the proselytizer.

It is common knowledge that pangs of hunger, poverty, and disease are too hard to digest for the common man. It is indeed against the morals of the land to abandon the religion and switch onto another. No culture would support that directly. But when in today's morally bereft world, when the rich do not show any inclination to obey the cultural norms and continue their rather rash quest of material advantage and power, and that without facing any physical limitations on their existence, do we really expect the poor and needy to abide by the rules, when there's is a matter of life and death?

Countries and populations cannot survive on just talks on dharma and air. Those times are long gone. Thus, socio-economic welfare for the entire populace, along with physical and mental security should be the key motive of the state. By physical security, I mean security against terrorists and rioting bigots, and by mental security I mean their protection against propaganda spread by foreign agents inside the motherland.

This is where the last post comes relevant. When there is resentment in the society, class conflict gets inevitable. But should this conflict have players other than the local populace affected? Should there directly be any external benefactors of this class conflict? You decide.

Q2. Where does proselytisation lead us to?
Ans. 2 The ultimate goal of proselytisation driven by either religion/personal initiative is deprivation of individual intellectuality. It will give rise to transnational organisations that will be run from a central power center. There will be nations, but the soul of the nations, the independence of the people's mind will be lost.

Well, what after the world has converted to the one true faith, the one honored by God? Shouldn't a boundary-less world be the ultimate goal of humanity?

Yes, but the necessary precondition to this that the individual is left independent to be what he wants to. Is there a guarantee over here that the religious elite seating at the power center of this true faith recognize the problems ailing the people of the other corner of the globe? Our experience is that empires of the state have not been able to do so, which could be the reason behind freedom struggles of the people, and their ultimate victory. And empires of the mind/religion can only do so by making people zombies to their order, incognizant of their individuality, and doing stuff for the elite by misplaced zeal without knowing little of what they are doing. People would end up as willful slaves of the religion. While the elite will enjoy the spoils of this cultural war, the laymen would have the most dogmatic aspects of the religion thrust down their throats.


Q3. Why should we be wary of it?
Ans2. For this, it is necessary to look into the dogma of the religions that proselytise. The dogma that is frequently espoused by the clergy of these religions is that the way of worship of these 'religions' is the best, and the rest need to be saved/killed/etc.

Thus, there is no concern of the law of the land. Whatever way of life exists in one portion of the globe, if it is not palatable to the locals, who viewing the way of life of the outsiders find their ways better, there is always a way to reform the local customs and traditions and take the best of their ways. The abhorable indigenous practices can be removed, while the best can be retained. Common sense says that the ancients cannot be entirely right, in the same way, they cannot be entirely wrong.

This will not be acceptable to the proselytisers. Theirs is a method of either labeling the locals as 'unbelievers' and killing them outrightly, or as 'heathens' and the need to 'save' them. The locals are made to reject their native customs completely, assimilated into the proselytic faith either at gunpoint or allured through fake promises. If at all any attempt is made to legalise native customs, they would be mutated as if to be invented by the proselytisers.

Thus, the eventual aim of proselytism would be to expand the following of that particular faith, at the cost of others. There is no 'live and let live' philosophy. There is always an urge to convert, by both the moderate and the radical even under the slightest of excuses.

In this melee, the native cultures are lost forever. The native faith, which is almost always inclusive in nature, will welcome trojans intoxicated by proselytic faiths. In today's world, with nukes at large and countries spending alot on defense, it would be a massive pain to conquer people and nations by the gun. Instead, nations will get conquered by religion. And the newly converted, will be made to parrot the lines of the headquarters of the religion. Say hello to the new weapon of imperialism, religion.

Q4. Is there any loss to the country, or to the humanity or the world as a whole because of proselytism?
Ans 4. The biggest loss to proselytic faiths is the loss of individuality, the lack of criticism or introspection on the basic tenets of the faith that would allow a process of natural reform, doing which an individual could be ostracized from the community as a whole.

The only way out of this grip of proselytism is spreading awareness about the proselytising faith among the masses. Religion is not what it was in the bygone days. In those days, it could be considered as a set of ethics, which could help govern a society when the state wasn't so powerful.

Today, with less damaging wars to the state (who knows what happens tomorrow, but at least there are not frequent changes to country boundaries and we don't see many grand conquerors rising in today's world except for this last maniac) state rules should suffice to govern the society.

So, then what is the need of religion? Perhaps only to provide ideals of human character and what we should aspire to be. And then, if one religion has those ideals already, why do we need to switch to another? The only reason could be when people are deprived of basic needs or when they are fed false propaganda regarding a faith.

Thus, to fight this renewed scourge, socio-economic reforms of the people is a must. Next step would be to encourage people to read about the new faith and its history before accepting the new dogma. Even then if he wishes to convert, inspired by the new doctrine, he should be allowed to. Blindly mugging people of their local faith without spreading awareness in the lust to increase numbers and region of spread will only lead to greater turmoil.

(Disclaimer: The following are solely my thoughts, which are very very remote from being implemented as law in any place in the world, considering my political inclination, and also the professionin which I am currently embroiled. So the point is, do not lose any sleep on what you may read here, as I am somewhat radical in thoughts. Also, due to some constraints based on the fact that I am an Indian by origin, I will write from an Indian PoV and be a critic of the known proselytising faiths. I have tried to keep it as generic as possible. Again, there is no inspiration from the Gita for this, but in the interest of holding a discussion that started off from some Gita quotes.. am just trying to end what I started.)

Class Warfare and Proselytism - An Explosive Mix

(Taking a jab at what is already known to many.. just for the sake of penning my thoughts. Not naming any religion directly.. so hope no one has a hurt ego, 'coz my points are general in nature.)

So, let us get to the definition of class warfare as per the great learning site:

Class warfare:
"...Class conflict, also class war or class warfare, is both the friction that accompanies social relationships between members or groups of different social classes and the underlying tensions or antagonisms which exist in society due to conflicting interests that arise from different social positions. Class conflict is thought to play a pivotal role in history of class societies (such as capitalism and feudalism) by Marxists who refer to its overt manifestations as class war, a struggle that is viewed by them as a product of capitalism..."

and proselytism:

Proselytism:
".. Proselytism is the practice of attempting to convert people to another opinion and, particularly, another religion. The word proselytism is derived ultimately from the Greek language prefix 'πρός' (towards) and the verb 'έρχομαι' (I come). Incidentally, proselytism is prohibited in Greece, according to the constitution of Greece. Historically in the New Testament, the word proselyte denoted a person who had converted to Judaism. Though the word proselytism was originally tied to Christianity, it is also used to refer to other religions' attempts to convert people to their beliefs or even any attempt to convert people to another point of view, religious or not. Today, the connotations of the word proselytism are often negative but this article will use the word neutrally to refer to any attempts to convert a person or people to another faith...."

Well, in simple class warfare within a people of the same religious domain, conflict resolution may be easy. That is assuming that both the 'proletariat' and the 'bourgeoisie' have the same cultural underpinnings.

But when another religion starts chipping into the 'proletariat', wanting them to denounce their former religion with false propaganda and try to ally them with the culture of the new religion, especially when the religion is an alien one, things get murkier. For now, the cultural common ground using which a conflict maybe resolved, is lost. The proselytes, aided by the foreign power grow more aggressive in their demands because they do not identify the 'bourgeoisie' as their own. And again, they have found a new entity batting for their interests. Any punishment of even rogue elements among the rebellious proletariat becomes 'persecution of the religion', the proselytes look to the homeland of the new religion for support, and seeing a chance at expanding its power, the foreign country seeks to establish a stronghold in this new land. What was a simple conflict now becomes a clash between two countries.

For those who think that missionaries are right in converting groups of underprivileged people, or even right in converting anybody at all, I have this from the Bhagwada Gita:

Always remember that key emphasis in the Bhagwada Gita is on "Moksha" from the cycles of life and death. Shree Krishna divides Nature into three parts, the good, the passionate and the ignorant. The good get liberated from the cycle of life and death, the passionate return to earth and the ignorant get a lower birth.

Classifying properties attributable to the good.
Ch. 16
१-३
श्री-भगवान उवाचा
अभयम सत्त्व-सम्सुद्धिर
जनाना-योग-व्यवस्थितिः
दानं दमास का यज्नस च
स्वध्ययास तप आर्जवं।

अहिंसा सत्यम अक्रोद्हस
त्यागः शंतिर अपैसुनाम
दया भुतेस्व अलोलुप्त्वं
मार्दवं हरीर अचापलं।

तेजः कसम ध्र्तिः शौचं
अद्रोहो नाती-मनीता
भवन्ति संपदं दैविम
अभिजातस्य भरता।

"The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: Fearlessness; purification of one’s existence; cultivation of spiritual knowledge; charity; self-control; performance of sacrifice; study of the Vedas; austerity; simplicity; nonviolence; truthfulness; freedom from anger; renunciation; tranquillity; aversion to faultfinding; compassion for all living entities; freedom from covetousness; gentleness; modesty; steady determination; vigor; forgiveness; fortitude; cleanliness; and freedom from envy and from the passion for honor—these transcendental qualities, O son of Bharata, belong to godly men endowed with divine nature."

Thus, if this is good, then my question to people is - what is the need of proselytism? Can't people just tend to be good and spiritual rather than invoking a new God at every available opportunity? We have already divided the landmass of the world into various countries, countries into states, states into districts, districts into talukas (From the Indian PoV - perhaps translatable into counties?) and so on. We have divided water bodies, resources, even air (In times of war, we do talk of this country's airspace and that country's airspace.) We have divided people, into classes, and now, even God among different religions. Such is the arrogance of the human race.

And for the demoniac:
४

दम्भो दर्पो ’भिमानस च
क्रोधः परुस्यम एव च
अज्नानाम काभिजतस्य
पर्थ संपदं असुरिम

"Pride, arrogance, conceit, anger, harshness and ignorance—these qualities belong to those of demoniac nature, O son of Pritha."

These are the attributes we see in the religion of the proselytizers.. "you believe in false Gods, you worship idols, you worship animals,.. forget that and look at our God".

As far as proselytism is carried out by force, it is certain that that will be opposed by a country's people. What may pull wool over their eyes is when people start converting by allurement.

So, as far as charities given by the foreign missionaries practicing proselytism is concerned:

Ch. 17

२०

दताव्यम इति यद् दानं
दीयते ’नुपकरिने
देस काले च पत्र च
ताड़ दानं सात्त्विकं स्म्र्तम।

"Charity given out of duty, without expectation of return, at the proper time and place, and to a worthy person is considered to be in the mode of goodness."

२१

यात तू प्रत्युपकारार्थं
फलं उद्दिस्य व पुनः
दीयते च परिक्लिस्तम
ताड़ दानं राजसं स्म्र्तम।

"But charity performed with the expectation of some return, or with a desire for fruitive results, or in a grudging mood, is said to be charity in the mode of passion."

२२

अदेसा-काले यद् दानं
अपत्रेभ्यास च दीयते
असत-कृतं अवज्नतम
तट तामसं उदाह्र्तम।

"And charity performed at an impure place, at an improper time, to unworthy persons, or without proper attention and respect is said to be in the mode of ignorance."

With this, I leave it upto you to decide what should be our attitude towards proselytism. As far as my opinion is concerned, people should be generally suspicious when some stranger to a country does charity, and preach some alien religion that doesn't arise from the soil of the land, just as we would be suspicious of strangers in general and not get too close to them just because they are showing us some moolah and promise small time benefits.

Take a stand. Protect your land from poachers. It is indeed true that God protects those who protect themselves. But in times like these, it is us too who have to protect God (deities.. to be specific). For without our worship, they will fade into the oblivion. Besides.. I also see it fit to oppose proselytism for the reason mentioned at the start.. that other countries can't get a say in another's sovereignty.

Food! For the Good, the Passionate and the Ignorant.

Shri Krishna classifies nature into three forms in the Bhagvada Gita: the good, the passionate and the ignorant. And in Chap. 17,.. classifies food, sacrifice, prayer, etc. into the three. Here is what the Bhagvada Gita talks on food.

८

आयुः-सत्त्व-बलारोग्य-
सुखा-प्रीटी-विवार्धनाह
रस्याः स्निग्धः स्थिर ह्रदय
अहरह सात्त्विका-प्रियः।

"Foods dear to those in the mode of goodness increase the duration of life, purify one’s existence and give strength, health, happiness and satisfaction. Such foods are juicy, fatty, wholesome, and pleasing to the heart."

९

कतव-अमला-लावानाटी-उसना-
तिक्सना-रुक्सा-विदाहिनाह
अहारा राजसस्येस्ता
दुह्ख-सोकामय-प्रदाह।

"Foods that are too bitter, too sour, salty, hot, pungent, dry and burning are dear to those in the mode of passion. Such foods cause distress, misery and disease."

१०

यता-यमं गता-रसम
पुती पर्युसितम का यात
उच्चिस्तम अपि कामेध्यम
भोजनं तमासा-प्रियम।

"Food prepared more than three hours before being eaten, food that is tasteless, decomposed and putrid, and food consisting of remnants and untouchable things is dear to those in the mode of darkness."

Of the 9th we may agree. As we know from modern science,.. too much of salt can cause high blood pressure, too much of hot food can also cause problems and so on. And I believe the 10th bats against fast food (McD goers, keep this in mind!)

But of the 8th I have doubts, as we know of the current problems that people have with atherosclerosis, diabetes and all.

But perhaps, just perhaps, these lines were spoken in times where people were physically fit and did a lot of manual labor.

One place where I find the Gita doubtful.. and wished to point it out.